Lately, I have been thinking alot about where climbing is going. In the last decade, climbing has progressed rapidly. I remember reading news about Fred Nicole establishing Dreamtime proposing 8C (v15), Dave putting up Story of Two Worlds 8C (v15), and Chris Sharma establishing Realization 9a+ (15a). All of these ascents were breakthroughs in climbing history. Not to mention these climbers were pioneering “hard” climbing and establishing themselves as icons in the sport. I looked up to these climbers since they were doing the impossible and this is what I wanted to do. In my mind though what they are doing for their generation is the same as what John Sherman, Gill, Lynn Hill, Conrad Anker, Peter Croft, and Wolfgang Gullich did for their generation. Sherman invented the V-scale and pushed the limits, Lynn freed the Nose, Gullich skipped 2 letter grades and est
alished Action Directe 9a, Conrad summited Everest several times without oxygen. All of these climbers progressed climbing in a dramatic way and set the seed of inspiration for the next generation. The cycle is going to be endless. Now we have climbers such as Adam Ondra and Enzo Oddo who are taking down current test pieces quickly and establishing lines of their own. These are just a couple that I can think of, but in all reality there are hundreds of up and coming mutants that will take 
climbs from my generation and past, turd on them, then create the next level. This is just logical progression. The main difference I can see is the resources that are available now compared to in the past. Back then, climbing was the equivelent to when the Dogtown boys strapped some wheels onto a banana board and shredded up the streets. It was a baby sport with much discovering to be had. Gyms were not around and specific training was not thought of. Even when I started climbing, system workouts, HD video, and badass gyms were not there. In my mind, the only way to improve was to just climb. Yes this is important, but at the same time you need specific training to take your potential to another level. Think of Olympic athletes especially gymnists. They train specifically for 4 years to prepare themselves for the main objective; The OLYMPICS. They watch their diet, observe numerous videos, and have coaches to put them through hell and back. When I lived in Innsbruck, I was amazed at how many strong athletes w
ere being brewed up there. I quickly found out why. Kids start out at an early age and learn very basic techniques then continue to progress from there. Innsbruck has one of the best climbing facilities in the world with prominent lead terrain and bouldering. It holds the likes of Kilian Fischuber, Anna Stohr, Jakob Schubert, David Lama, and Angela Eiter, all dominent competition climbers and very successful outdoor climbers. If the resources and motivation are there, it is inevitable that climbing will progress. I mean 14a and v6 used to be standards right? The next generation comes along and sets the bar and the cycle continues because the resources and research continue to improve. If skateboards never improved from the banana board, jumping off stairs would be impossible to do successfully. Lighter boards, trucks, and wheels were designed along with adding concave to the deck to make it flip and pop up higher. This paved the way for skaters like Tony Hawk to do the 900 and Jamie Thomas ollying over the Leap of Faith. HUGE progression in skating. Going from carving up the streets to getting 30 foot vertical air. It is because the resources and equipment have drastically improved. For climbing, the harnesses, sh
oes, ropes, draws, pads, and even chalk have increased drastically. These are all elements that contribute to taking climbing to the next level. With advanced product, better gyms, and training regimes; of course climbing will be taken to another level and will continue to imrove even from today. That is why now 100 people are climbing 9a or 8B+ and harder and not just a couple. This does not mean climbs should be downgraded, it just means more and more people are getting involved in the sport and improving. In my mind, I cannot see us just having 8B+ and 9a+ forever. I mean technially 8B+ has been flashed! Adam flashed Confessions and to me it was really fucking hard. I spent 5 days on it. Climbers like Ramonet, Patxi, Adam, Sylvain Millet, Dani, Enzo, Steve McClure, Jakob, David, Kilian the list goes on have all climbed 9a and harder and most have done it within a handful of tries! This does not mean it is not what it is but that more and more climbers are improving.
Chris is taking a stand and making 9b the next level butI am sure he feels like 9b+ and c are just around the corner. For me I think there will be such thing as v17,18, and 19. Why not? There are too many generations to come to completely ride this option off. For me I can foresee doing v17 and 18, it is just finding the right piece of rock that offers it. I have always been really confused on what makes something a number grade. I like having numbers because it tracks self progression and gives me motivation to climb even harder. The difficulty is labeling something with a number and calling it good. So many factors play a part in climbing. Height, arm span, finger strength, technique etc. there is no way in telling how hard something is. Some tall beast can come along and set wide compression moves on non existant slopers and to him/her it is only v10 but for someone short it could be v15 or impossible even if that shorter person was a legit v10 climber. This is the same with a small person setting up a problem with mini moves, the tall person could be screwed or have much difficulty. Two climbers are the same level just different body types. I have worked this climb out at poudre for 2 days (no send) called Whats Left from the Bottom of My Heart that involves a long span move between two slopers. For me it is my full extension and if I graded it, it would be hard 13. Jimmy Webb and Brion Voges (both are over 6 foot) did the boulder in a day and made it look like v5. They both are very strong climbers but our heights are completely d
ifferent. To them the Boulder felt like v12 but for me it was harder. Height does play a major roll in climbing and I have figured this out being 5 foot 7 compared to the average male climber who is 5 foot 10 or 11. This is motivating to me though to do moves that seem impossible for my height that someone who is 6 foot can do. Maybe it just means I have to jump for the hold they can reach statically. When it comes down to it though, there are going to be some climbs that are completely impossible for me to do. Everyone has their own style, which makes this sport very interesting. Everyone will have their own personal opinion on what things feel like and the opinion is neither right or wrong. The point is that I am excited to see climbing progress into this new rhelm and see newer things being put. Everyone should enjoy this lifestyle that we all experience and use climbing in whatever way they want to become motivated. There are no right or wrong approaches to the sport. The sport is like our universe, there is no end. DW
thanks daniel, very well written. stop this silly “downgrad-everything-you-can-climb”. (deflation in economic theory is way more feared than inflation, because deflation stops progression) the devlopment of our sport in terms of difficulty has just really started right now – open your mind(s) and climb sick hard impossible stuff
Every generation wants to push standards and then cap it, imposing some imaginary limit or cieling. Like it or not, our activity is open ended in terms of difficulty. Thank you for having the courage to look ahead and try to break those barriers.
good points but you gotta throw in some paragraph structure there! it’s like climbing 15 pitches with no belay heh
Word. Grades are just so you know what you’re getting into. HARD v15? Soft v16? Who gives a shit. No one who sends there first v9 is going to get psyched and go work The Game or Lucid Dreaming.
I also agree with the last Adam’s Comment. Paragraphs dude.
That also might be the most insightful I have ever heard you Daniel….who knew.
Hi Daniel, great point of view. I’ve been climbing for 2 years now and recently I’ve been reading comments about grading from many top climbers of the world and Brazil. The posts are helping me understand what this numbers are all about. For me, they are only a PERSONAL suggestion of difficulty: the higher is the number, the smaller is the chance for someone to flash it.
Take it easy and climb hard!
Cool post. It’s definitely cool to approach climbing and difficulty with an open mind. That said, I really respect what Ondra is doing in repeating most of the world’s sportclimbing testpieces. Like no other climber before him, he will truly have a grasp of what the current standard is, and be able to push things forward with a fair degree of certainty about how things stack up. With hard bouldering often being more morphological, this throws a spanner in the works somewhat!
Thanks. Intresting reading… and I really hope that your right about the endlessness! Looking forward watching you take that first v20 step (and maby on a skate? Haha)!
[...] Daniel Woods blogs about (among other things) his new tattoo and his thoughts on where the sport is going. [...]
wooord. really, grades are completely subjective.. it is almost a bummer that height is such a limiting factor (going both ways) in climbing. it definitely makes for difficulty in reaching a consensus..
what is interesting to me though, is that most of the time, some sort of consensus can be reached. usually, most people propose with in one letter grade (+/-) of an established rating… perhaps there is something to that.
as you say, like skating, climbing has started to come out of its more primitive stage, to get the shit you see today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5Jb_BciNI
dw, remember: strict adherence to grammar is for the oppressed bitches of grammar.
it irritates me when folks give you a hard time about your posts. keep letting your thoughts flow.
while elegance and clarity in writing is something we all strive for, it is an ignorant person who gets caught up on your grammar and cannot extract your point.
word, mang.
keep crushign.
I agree with you Daniel, the future of climbing will continue the same way that everything up to the present has. Grades will continue to be pushed, but.
I wonder if there will ever be a “true” ceiling? There seems to be a ceiling for what is humanly possible in many other sports. There are always those mutants that will push it just a bit further. (Usain Bolt, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, and others). Of course updated training, nutrition, equiptment, etc. help them, but they are the mutants. They are the less than 1% of people above everyone else that sit at the ceiling. Sometime in the future, do you think there will be a ceiling grade (I am not wondering what you think that grade is) that is attainable by only the very best, and then those special people that come along once in a generation that break that ceiling?
Just like grades, paragraphs (and punctuation) are subjective too.
http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/virtualit/fiction/Girl/story.asp
http://www.creativenonfiction.org/brevity/brev33/church_lag.html
This is a bit odd. It starts with “future of climbing” pontification, all well and good. It can’t not progress, climbing is life and must perform its intrinsic task. The writing then leads into a sort of disclaimer on the justification boulder grades, highlighting the inherent subjectivity (I think we covered this subject in kindergarten before we got stuck into the difference between circles and squares). They are however a means to an end for soooo many people it cannot be ignored (maybe all, despite what they say!), and to hide behind the brittle, limpid wall of “their subjectivity” only denotes the real anxiety one feels about them and their status. That said, with every centimeter in height a persons weight increases exponentially, and longer levers need relatively larger muscles, which when doubled in size increase in strength a mere 60%. height excuses are the rightful property of the tall!:)
Sorry I don’t mean any meanness, theres obviously nogg’in cogs a’turning but the end thought seems shrouded in a viscous goo, impenetrable for much else but a motive looking glass.
Keep send’in
IT
This sounds like a disclaimer,
Fyi Voges might be around 6 foot but J Webb is not. I’ll be generous with 5’10″.
I like to think that climbing is all about the personal journey and being honest about how hard something is brings out a diversity of opinions and consensus grows from there. That said, it makes no difference what other people call something. Unless of course it is Jaeger (and not everything is V7).
Dear Ivan Dickbaum, what is your fucking point?? This is Daniel’s personal opinion about the future of rock climbing, and you obviously didn’t understand the point he was making, which you portrayed through your ignorant post. Learn how to read you wimpy pig. You obviously are not in the professional climbing scene and have no correct perspective on what is going on with pushing standards. Nice analogies douche bag.
Hey, whats with the animosity ?
I was just saying that with such a BIG deffinate title as “climbing and where it’s going” should lead somewhere where it suggests it might, with such a heading, insted of a conveluted journey to the center of fuzz. I don’t need child name calling when I myself am trying to add something to the pot. Just putting points out there into the nowwhere mess of the whole subject of climbing progression. “and you obviously didn’t understand the point”, what was to get?
Climbing moves forward…ah ha
Short people are short…poor them
“Learn how to read you wimpy pig”?
Quit burning your hate trail darling and think about learning how to read what your reading, not what your told your reading. Ciao, IT
This is Daniel’s blog.. the presumption is all on Daniel’s side here, because he has the authority here as a professional athlete to blog whatever the fuck he wants. Reguardless of his status, it is still HIS blog, NOT IVAN DICKBAUMS. Furthermore, you state that you want to add something to the pot and the burden is all on you by any debate standard to prove A, why Daniel is wrong, B. why you are correct, and C why you have any authority over Daniel on this matter (ie. Are you a professional climber??) Nowhere in this post did you meet any of these burdens except for bad grammar. LEARN HOW TO FUCKING SPELL! Before you can make a valid argument, get your verb/noun agreements correct. Until that time, your opinion is rubbish and jiberish. My ad hominem attacks are completely justified. What the fuck is fuzz, and I repeat myself, YOU WIMPY PIG??
Hey man, I’m not saying his wrong for what his saying, chill out. what he wrote just jumped around and and almost said something a couple of times but didn’t end up…
I’m not dissing him darling so turn off your trash talk, its offensive. Maybe my grammar is confusing your understanding of what I’m saying, I would learn how to spell if my computer had spell check. Fuzz is the destination arrived at after a short stint of waffling on.
Ah OK! I get it, to have a valid argument I need
1: Good grammar, I may even be able to get across some drunken yokle abuse like yourself. I can only practise and hope!
2: My fingers to have pulled myself upon a pedestal in peoples mind so i too can look down on the ignorant peasants and blither my majestic nonsense.
Dja dig what I’m saying?
The credentials you think I must fulfil before I can have my little mouse peep say are so utter and completely whacked, but i appreciate your drivel.
So experience is nothing, regardless of people you’ve heard of?
“I haven’t heard of this wretch! how can he possibly THINK he can have an idea on this subject compared to Bla McGraw? He who was born of the thighs of coincidental fingers and location?”.
So I need to learn to spell before i can join the gang who are able to speak.
Maybe you need to continue to hone that drunken gypsy tongue and hmmm, you seem to be able to read words but seem so deathly inept at deducing meaning it’s comical. Maybe practise that:)
Oh the abuse on your blog Daniel, Its terrible, I didn’t mean it to be this way:)
See you later
IT
well that was interesting….v16 is hard as nuts. DW, DG, PR…strong as hell. nuts+ hell= progression.
sock: asking for paragraphs ain’t given DW a hard time about grammar. I got his point.
Dear Daniel,
Congratulations on your win at the WC, as always, you put on a spectacular show. I just wanted to take a minute to thank you; you’ve been a huge inspiration to me, seeing as I’m 5″7, and I sport a -4 index. Isn’t that fantastic? Anyway, you have once and for all proven that there is nothing for me to complain about, seeing as you don’t let your height get in the way of crushing super hard boulder problems and insane sport climbs all over the world.
Also, I’d like to thank you for not being a complete and total douchebag, and not releasing a movie called “Daniel Woods: The Movie” with the tagline “A true story about the greatest climber in the world.” Needless to say, it’s guys like you that reinforce climbing’s reputation; chill, laid back people that enjoy getting outside, having a great time, and getting adrenaline rushes from the crowd at comps.
Anyway, thanks again for being such a huge inspiration. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched the video of you at the mammut bouldering championships on problem #4, doing that ridiculous one arm lock off, pulling through, and getting the flash. GNAR. It’s guys like you, Paul Robinson, and the rest of your crew that I look up to. Not self-centered brats from the czech republic. Hope all is well, and if you’re ever in the northwest area (squamish, leavenworth, etc.) let me know. I’d love to chill with you guys and give you a place to crash. Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Justin Wyse
Only real progression is progression in our consciousness. If that can be achieved through climbing that’s good. If not, climbing doesn’t matter.
Only real progression is progression in our consciousness. If that can be achieved through climbing that’s good. If not, climbing doesn’t matter.
Usually climbing is only just one more of activities that tie us to our false I-amness that we developing from achieving something in some area. Even further, because of nature of climbing and development of certain skills we tend to confined ourselves into closed climbing groups on which way we usually loosing the whole diversity and stop development while start degradation.
Climbing should stay what it is “just a play” of human child.
Another fantastic post! I shared this one on Facebook – you must add a “like” button to your posts.